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thread 1/82
05.16.2024 NY trial

Right out of the box, as he said earlier, Blanche starts to "clean up" the indictment-leak question.

Do you know that on 3/30, court unsealed the indictment? Correct. So what you learned or hear about the indictment on 3/30, it was unsealed, correct?

Please approach—sidebar.
02:21 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 2/82
We resume without a limiting instruction, so Merchan must be satisfied with the cleanup so far.

Now to Cohen's TV appearances: just to be clear when you did those interviews, the indictment had been sealed? Yes, Cohen says, he read it in the NYT.

Clean up complete it seems.
02:23 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 3/82
Now to a series of msgs btwn Cohen and the 14-yr-old prank texter (B165, now in evidence), where we left off pre-lunch.

Blanche shows the texts we heard about before lunch: Cohen tells the person the # was sent to Secret Service bc of harrassment.

Then the person apologizes...
02:24 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 4/82
...claims he's 14 yrs old, and so Cohen asks the boy to have his parent or guardian contact him.

Blanche goes way back now, to the 2010 poll which Cohen said on Monday that he showed Trump, then started http://shouldtrumprun.com
02:27 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 5/82
Q: Is it fair to say that at the time the press regarded this as a bit of a stunt?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Then you worked with the Natl Enquirer, in 2011, to run a story about how strong Trump looked in the polls?

A: Yes sir.
02:28 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 6/82
In that story, there was a positive profile of Cohen as the person who started http://shouldtrumprun.com—Blanche says you worked very hard during your time with the Trump Org to get positive stories in the press about what Trump was doing and about Cohen himself.
02:30 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 7/82
How did that press relationship work? asks Blanche.

Cohen explains: he would reach out to reporters, ask if they're interested in a certain topic, and offer an exclusive.
02:31 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 8/82
Let's take the opposite, Blanche asks. What would you take, if any, to get rid of/minimize a negative story.

That's a little different, says Cohen. Instead of me calling the journalist, they would call me. Then I would immediately go to Trump's office, we'd come up w/ response.
02:32 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 9/82
Q: You did that a lot, right? You had a rolodex full of reporter's contact info?
A: Correct.
Q: And you didn't always have to go back to Trump to handle a story?
A: No sir.
Q: You mean you never answered a reporter w/out going to Trump?
A: It was my routine to ask him.
02:34 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 10/82
So over the course of 9.5 years, you never commented on a story on your own?

The initial comment, no, Cohen says. But he would often mimic the same resopnse to the next magazine, the next newspaper, and so on.
02:35 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 11/82
Cohen essentially says that he would always consult w/TFG out of fear—fear of Trump blowing up at him, fear of him losing his job over a rogue comment, etc.

Eventually, Trump said he wouldn't run in 2011. Shortly after, Cohen says, yes, he worked w/Davidson to remove the Daniels story on TheDirty.
02:37 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 12/82
Q: Is it fair to say that the first time you spoke to Trump about the 2011 Daniels story, he said he was concerned about his family?

A: Yes, and the brand.

Blanche asks whether Cohen threatened legal action to get that story down, and Cohen says yes—though Davidson effectuated it
02:37 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 13/82
Q: Some of the reporters with which you had close relationships were Chris Cuomo? Katie Tur? Maggie Haberman? Yes, yes, yes

Blanche asks only about Haberman: would you describe your relationship with her as very strong? (Yes)

You asked her to write + stories about you? (Yes sir)
02:39 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 14/82
Cohen agrees that yes, if it was a "NYT-style" story, he would give Haberman tips, scoops.

Why did you record convos w/ reporters? asks Blanche.

For note-taking, Cohen says. For later reference to craft responses. Simple as that.
02:41 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 15/82
Q: When did you stop?

A: After the 2016 election.

Q: You didn't record convos w/ reporters in 2017/18?

A: I'd have to check.

We'll check together in a moment, Blanche says.

Thank you, Cohen says sarcastically.
02:42 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 16/82
After the pre-lunch fireworks, the post-lunch mood is fairly lethargic.

Blanche is back to a thousand cuts, rather than a big wallop.
02:43 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 17/82
Blanche asks about other recordings:

It's not illegal to record conversations in New York, with one-party consent, Cohen says a bit defensively.

Blanche lets out a quick laugh and says, Mr. Cohen I did not ask you whether you were breaking the law.
02:44 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 18/82
BLANCHE: One of the reasons you'd want relationships with reporters is to respond, to push information, to shape an article—or maybe that's not the best word, so choose the word you like—to make the article come out as favorable to you or Trump as possible?

COHEN: That's true.
02:45 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 19/82
When asked about what type of commication he would use with what type of reporter, Cohen says for a "private or unusual type of situation, I would go to one of the encrypted apps."

BLANCHE: And there were 95 secret recordings on your iPhone?

COHEN: Correct.
02:47 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 20/82
BLANCHE: Who else did you secretly record, other than reporters?

COHEN: Jeff Zucker, Trump.

BLANCHE: You understand that it's not ethical to record your client? [Trump was Cohen's client at the time]

COHEN: Yes, except of course crime-fraud exception.
02:48 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 21/82
BLANCHE: So you surreptitiously recorded your client so that you could play a privileged recorded communication with a third party?

COHEN: That's correct.
02:50 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 22/82
Blanche asks about the meeting btwn Cohen, Trump, and Pecker at Trump Tower—you said the power of Natl Enquirer is its "placement in supermarkets," did you tell the grand jury—objection, sustained—did you tell anyone about that before your testimony?

Not that I recall, Cohen says
02:51 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 23/82
We loop back around to where the cross started yesterday: didn't you say on Tiktok that Pecker's testimony corroborated what you've been saying for years?

That's a very general statement, says Cohen.

You said it bc the People told you about his testimony, accuses Blanche.
02:53 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 24/82
Now back to the (false) Dino Sajudin story—you previously told law enforcement that he was concerned about the story bc it was about people who still worked for him, worked with him, Blanche asks, his voice softening.
02:53 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 25/82
You testified that all along the way, you kept Trump updated, correct? (Yes sir)

But what about things like the liquidation clause in the contract? (No)

Those were the kinds of things you would handle as the lawyer? (Yes sir).

Blanche jumps around again—to the McDougal story now
02:55 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 26/82
Q: Didn't you previously tell the govt that Trump said he didn't think the McDougal story would hurt him?

A: I would need to see that document, please.

Sure, says Blanche, and shows him B127.
02:56 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 27/82
Cohen relents—initially, yes, Trump didn't think the McDougal story would hurt him.

Blanche goes back to the earlier wound he opened: the 2016 phone call with Trump via Schiller's phone.
02:58 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 28/82
How many calls were you getting a day? asks Blanche

Hundreds, Cohen responds, and Blanche seems genuinely taken aback. Let's just say 50, conservatively, he says, then making a few back of the napkin calculations: so more than 50k phone calls between 2016 and today?
02:59 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 29/82
COHEN: These phone calls are ones I've been talking about for the past 6 years, they've been all-consuming, significant calls, so I remember the substance if not the timing.

BLANCHE: You mean to tell me you were talking about these calls for the past 6 years?
03:01 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 30/82
Setting aside the tens of thousands of calls Cohen received or placed since 2016, Blanche chooses on one:

Do you have a specific recollection of the 06/16/16 call? He shows Cohen the call log, and Cohen says yes he remembers, based on the other documents.
03:02 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 31/82
I recalled the conversation based on the other documents.

I understand, Blanche says, but that's not what he's asking. He's asking if Cohen has a specific recollection of that conversation on that phone call on that day in June?
03:04 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 32/82
Now back to the surreptitious 2m51s recording of Trump, in which he says "our friend David."

Recall, Cohen says that Pecker was being considered for CEO of Time, and there was a concern about a secret box of docs that would change hands to whoever succeeded Pecker.
03:05 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 33/82
Blanche brings up the "hit by a bus" comment about Pecker, and asks, The concern here was even beyond the election—meaning, this conversation wasn't tied to the election? There was a real concern he could get hit by a bus?

Yes sir, Cohen replies.
03:07 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 34/82
Later, Cohen says Pecker told him not to worry—there was nothing int the files, and he wasn't being considered for CEO of Time anymore.
03:09 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 35/82
Now to the bit on the recording about "financing," when Trump said to pay in "cash." Isn't it true that when you worked for him, Trump would very often purchase things in cash? Blanche asks. He would even buy certain properties with cash, and "without financing"?

Well, yes.
03:16 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 36/82
That was the messaging he was giving, Cohen says, that Trump is very rich, so he can pay cash.

Blanche wants even more clarification to hammer the point home—when he says cash, Trump doesn't mean "green," as you testified?
03:18 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 37/82
Cohen says he was talking about paying by check—and Blanche, seeing an opening, jumps in: isn't that the point right when the recording cut off?

The recording cut off bc I got a phone call, Cohen says calmly.
03:18 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 38/82
Blanche changes tack, and asks slowly: What phone was that recording on?

It was one of the two phones, Cohen replies, still calm.

Blanche tacks back to the recording, showing the transcript cutting off right at "Check."
03:19 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 39/82
Just so I understand, Blanche continues evenly, you're in a meeting with Trump about the financing or cash with the McDougal story, but the bank calls, and you just answer that call? What was it about? ...
03:20 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 40/82
...Cohen first says he can't recall, then ventures a guess that it was probably about identify theft he was subjected to at the time.

Blanche sees another opening: so you do recall or you don't recall?

He seems a bit sharper now, more focused.
You sure about that? he adds.
03:20 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 41/82
Blanche picks at another inconsistency: you use encrypted apps, but some of the most key communications were just on text right? And the documents—the NDA itself—were just emailed back and forth?

Between myself and Mr Davidson, yes, Cohen says.
03:21 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 42/82
We stop there for afternoon recess.

Merchan excuses the jury, and asks an attorney from each side to join him in the robing room, I assume to discuss the juror's Thursday 1:30pm appointment.

Trump and co. exit, and we break for 10 mins.
03:22 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 43/82
we're back

I want to talk for a minute about the $130k you made to Mr Davidson, Blanche starts.

Finally.
03:34 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 44/82
Q: You learned along the way that another news org wanted to buy the story yes? At what point did you hear that?

A: When we failed to transfer the $130k as per Davidson's cutoff date.

Q: It was ABC correct?

A: Yes.
03:35 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 45/82
You learned that ABC had offered about the same amount of money you were going to pay? (Yes) Who was the reporter—setting aside whether it's true or not, Blanche adds quickly—you learned this from?

John Santucci, Cohen says, after blanking on his name first.
03:36 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 46/82
Do recall saying to Pomerantz that Davidson on behalf of Daniels was engaging in extortion?

Objection—overruled.

Yes, Cohen recalls says that they were extorting Trump.
03:37 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 47/82
Blanche clarifies that Cohen reached this extortion conclusion because of the timing of the election? And you didn't pay for a while?

Yes, we went several weeks w/out paying, Cohen says.

But ultimately you did, says Blanche, promising to return to that.
03:38 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 48/82
Blanche continues, you called the payments hush-money, but make no mistake, this was a completely legal binding contract?

Yes sir, Cohen says, then Blanche declares confidently: Let's pull it up.

We see the NDA appear on the four screens around the courtroom.
03:39 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 49/82
An NDA, a settlement between two parties, happens all. the. time., Blanche asks, but it sounds like a statement.

Yes they do, says Cohen.

Now the pseudonyms—or pseudo-names, as Cohen would pronounce it—who came up with Peggy Peterson and David Dennison?

Mr Davidson, says Cohen
03:40 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 50/82
You were a lawyer at the time, Blanche begins to ask, but Hoffinger stands: "May we approach."

Sidebar.

Cohen takes a gulp of water, scans the gallery, then tries to smile in the direction of the jury.
03:40 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 51/82
Tyler McBrien

Blanche resumes: you testified that for your work with the Trump Org, you reported directly to Pres Trump?

Yes sir.

And for the org, you did legal work?

Cohen thinks for a second. No, not much legal work.
03:41 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 52/82
Cohen agrees that he would work on "new projects," including the Apprentice—and that was for the Trump Org? asks Blanche.

No, I don't think the Apprentice would be for the Trump Org.
03:42 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 53/82
Cohen's other duties incl. legal work for Don Jr, possibly Ivanka, and Melania—and you never had a retainer agreement with any of those individuals, and the reason was you didn't need one bc you were employed by the Trump Org, and that you didn't have to worry about getting paid?
03:43 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 54/82
Q: The truth is, for the entire time you worked for the Trump Org, you never had a retainer agreement?

A: That's correct.

Q: And you were acting as a lawyer that whole time?

A: Well I did legal matters and non-legal matters.
03:44 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 55/82
Blanche's line of questioning here seems clear: for Cohen's tenure at the Trump Org, he did some legal work at least, but never had a retainer, and there's nothing wrong or unethical with that.
03:45 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 56/82
Now we see what I think is Cohen's letter in response to a Common Cause FEC complaint—Blanche begins to read it, and asks: Cohen paid the money, and Trump reimbursed you from his personal account?

Either from his own funds, or the trust, Cohen clarifies.
03:46 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 57/82
The FEC complaint was sealed, Blanche clarifies, and yet Cohen showed the "sealed" complaint to some reporters. Cohen was angry, even said he might seek sanctions, and was sick of defending himself from "frivolous allegations."
03:47 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 58/82
Blanche displays Cohen's statement at the time, the one in which he wrote: Just because something isn't true doesn't mean that it can't cause you harm or damage. I will always protect Mr. Trump.
03:49 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 59/82
I was validating the statement I had sent out with that paragraph, Cohen says. I wanted them to believe that it was true.

Did you tell them it was true?

I called them and told them my statement was true, Cohen confirms.
03:50 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 60/82
Hoffinger objects about a line of questioning about Cohen lying to his lawyers (sustained), and Merchan says why don't we stop it right there.

He gives his usual instructions to the jury before dimissing them for the day.
03:51 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 61/82
The jury departs, but remember—we're not done yet.

We should hopefully get some clarification on the remaining witnesses scheduling. Hopefully...
03:54 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 62/82
We hear from Bove for the first time now, who wants to address the potential testimony of Brad Smith on campaign finance law: the category they want to discuss is general defintions and terms that relate to this case, such as "campaign contribution."
03:55 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 63/82
What has changed since Merchan's ruling: both parties put in instructions, including about FECA. Bove doesn't want to encroach on Merchan's potential legal instructions, and wants to make sure the court is still contemplating setting up what are potential "battling" witnesses.
03:55 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 64/82
Bove wants to touch on basic statutory defintions and some phrases w/in those definitions that they think it's important that one way or another the jury gets instructions on, whether through dueling experts or another way.
03:57 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 65/82
Bove would seek to elicit from Smith an interpretation of "for the purpose of influencing any election for federal office," the "irrespective rule" from the FEC's regulation, and the press exemption, along with certain definitions of contribution, limits, expenditure, and others.
03:57 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 66/82
He continues to discuss what the defense plans to elicit from Brad Smith—trying to give the jury a sense of what the requirements are for certain terms, and how the FEC has applied them. Not hypotheticals, he clarifies, applications in practice.
03:59 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 67/82
The last issue is the press exemption, which has a basis in the statute, as well as the FEC's regulations, and a cited advisory opinion—"just to give the jury a little bit of content around these terms." But, he says again he doesn't want to tread on Merchan's instructions.
04:00 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 68/82
You believe that the biggest impetus of this is bc we have competing instructions, not the facts of the case and the way they came in? Merchan asks Bove.

Bove says he just wants everyone to be "eyes wide open" coming into Monday, which is when this testimony could come in.
04:02 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 69/82
Colangelo is up: 95% of the proffered testimony flies in the face of your honor's instructions, which prohibits the "interpretation and application of federal campaign finance laws."
04:03 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 70/82
That kind of testimony from an expert is precisely why there's a general and broadly followed prohibition on this type of testimony, Colangelo says.
04:04 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 71/82
He mentions this is compounded by the prosecution's expert witness: "But then we have three people telling the jury what the law is," Colangelo says, stopping to gesture toward Merchan, "when there should be one."
04:05 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 72/82
He's not done: the possibility of any testimony on the press exemption has never been disclosed, Colangelo continues, so there's "serious notice problem" from the outset.

Colangelo rapidly adds on more arguments, so quickly that the court reporter asks him to repeat himself.
04:05 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 73/82
"Your honor, what Mr Bove just described is totally outside and way beyond both what your honor already ruled, and any generally accepted prohibition on expert testimony," Colangelo says by way of conclusion.

Bove stands again, pushing back calmly, gently.
04:06 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 74/82
The jury has to get alternate info, one way or another, as to how to apply these principles, Bove says. We don't think this jury should be evaluating a FECA violation, but we understand we lost that fight. So we want them to understand what those principles are, in a fair way.
04:07 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 75/82
I don't think the fact that both of you submitted jury charges necessitates changes my ruling to the motions in limine, says Justice Merchan, directing parties to pgs 1–3, then reads from it.

What you're asking me is to enlarge this decision quite a bit, Merchan says to Bove.
04:10 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 76/82
04:12 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 77/82
Tyler McBrien

Justice Merchan reads this passage from the ruling and says, Therefore, the purpose of your witness is greatly limited.
04:14 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 78/82
Nothing else from either side, we discuss scheduling. "I'm doing everything possible to avoid big breaks between summations, jury charge, and deliberations," says Merchan. Parties asked if we can start early and late some days, and that's possible.
04:16 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 79/82
Blanche says he as "not a lot" left with Cohen, and he'll be finished with the cross Monday before the morning break. For the redirect, Hoffinger estimates under an hour.
04:17 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 80/82
For the defense case, Blanche says he expects to reach a decision "very soon today" and will communicate that to the court. There may be rebuttal witnesses, but Blanche says it's certainly reasonable to believe that aside from Brad Smith, the other witnesses can be on and off Mon
04:18 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 81/82
Possibility that we'll be done with presentation of evidence of Mon, and have that pre-charge conference same day.

Merchan asks parties to be ready for summations, closing arguments, for Tuesday—and he'll try his best to keep them to one day.
04:19 PM - May 16, 2024
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thread 82/82
Blanche still left the question open of whether Trump will testify.

As Merchan exits through his personal door, Trump and co walk out the main door, and the prosecution begins to pack up, that's it for the day.

....the trial has felt both lightning fast and glacial at the same time.
04:21 PM - May 16, 2024
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