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thread 1/85
05.20.2024 NY trial after lunch

Tyler McBrien:

Merchan is back: he's discussing the People's proposal to introduce the exhibits, and submission incl. rules of evidence and People v Goldman decision

The CSPAN witness's need to make another trip to NYC from Louisiana could hinge on this decision.
02:18 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 2/85
Merchan is reading a few answers from a transcript of the CSPAN witness's testimony.

Trump has a document in his hands, and he holds it up in front of his face, appearing to read it.
02:19 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 3/85
As Merchan continues to read from the transcript, Bove and Necheles discuss something, and Necheles cracks a wide smile.

All five members of the prosecution studiously review stapled stacks of papers in front of them, scribbling a note here and there.
02:20 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 4/85
First, Merchan appreciates the caselaw referred by the People during lunch recess, and he also agrees the proffered evidence is relevant—but he doesn't see how the People can't get past the hearsay objection.
02:21 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 5/85
Objection is sustained. Either the images will not come in or they're gonna haul the poor guy back here from Louisiana. Sounds like it'll be the latter.

I hope he's in a good frequent flyer program.
02:21 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 6/85
Blanche stands and "very much objects." He says we're presumably minutes away from the People resting their case, and they have a witness in the back ready to testify, and another short witness after that.

Seems to imply a confirmation, finally, that Trump will not testify.

🐦‍⬛
02:24 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 7/85
Steinglass says they're trying their best, and hope to get the witness here as early as tomorrow morning.

Merchan asks Blanche why adjourning now until tomorrow morning to do that would be prejudicial.
02:25 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 8/85
We're taking a moment now for the prosecution to reach out to the witness again, to see when how quickly he can get here from Louisiana.

I hope he doesn't have dinner plans.
02:29 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 9/85
Some more color from the courtroom: As Dershowitz attempts to mingle with the hoi polloi in the gallery, a court officer walks over to him, and Dersh asks “Am I not allowed to talk?"

The guard shakes his head no, to which Dersh exclaims, "He was my student! There’s a special...
02:33 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 10/85
...exception for former students!” The court officer walks away, so Dershowitz, still standing there, resumes chatting. Eventually, he wanders back to the Trump row, and sits there by himself, because the rest of the Trump team left with the former president.
02:33 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 11/85
The prosecution reached CSPAN, and they're booking travel now so that the witness can be here by 9:30am.

Blanche registers his continued objection, noting this is the "5th or 6th time" we have to adjourn early thanks to a prosecution witness.
02:34 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 12/85
"Um, that's just wrong," Steinglass says, almost laughing, and here in the press gallery, people are definitely laughing.
02:35 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 13/85
Merchan recalls stopping early just one time, for a medical reason.

Look, if scheduling were an issue, if time were of the essence, I'd agree with Mr Blanche, the judge says. There's no prejudice—so it's up to Blanche to present case out of order, or adjourn til tmrw morning.
02:36 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 14/85
Steinglass says the ball is in Blanche's court—the defense team asks for two minutes.

If anyone on the defense team is reading it, why not adjourn early? It is, and this is no exaggeration, absolutely perfect outside.
02:36 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 15/85
Blanche having wandered over to the prosecution table, kneels down between Steinglass and Hoffinger, his elbows slung on the backs of each of their chairs.

The three are in discussion.
02:38 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 16/85
Steinglass says defense agreed that the exhibit will come in, and agree to the following stipulation: Parties have agreed that Exhibit 417B is a still photograph taken from the end of a video which concluded at 7:57pm on 10/24/16.
02:42 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 17/85
Jury's back, Cohen's back, and, as expected, Hoffinger shows Cohen Exhibit 417B—the photograph of Trump and Schiller.

No objection, it enters into evidence, and Hoffinger reads the stipulation, also as expected.
02:45 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 18/85
Around the time, Cohen says he had a number of conversations with Trump about the Daniels matter, some in person, some by phone, some longer, some shorter.

Approx how many convos w/ Trump about Daniels matter in Oct 2016?

More than twenty, Cohen says.
02:47 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 19/85
Cohen says he reviewed records of the calls in preparation of his testimony, which helped refresh his memory.

A number of jurors have notepads and pens out, and some appear to be taking notes.
02:48 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 20/85
Q: Do you have any doubt in your mind that Trump gave you final sign off?

A: No doubt.

Q: Would you have paid Stormy Daniels $130k had Trump not signed off?

A: No.
02:49 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 21/85
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24631034-peoples-267-cohen-davidson-recording-transcript-107...

Hoffinger plays People's 265, and you can follow along via the transcript (People's 267)
02:51 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 22/85
After a bit of technical difficulties, unresolved, we take a quick break, for which Merchan apologizes to the jury.

(ok but i'm getting comfortable...)
02:53 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 23/85
The clip starts abruptly—the press let out a surprised laugh—and stops again. I guess the tech issues have been resolved, so they ask to bring back the jury and witness.
02:55 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 24/85
Before the tech difficulties start, it looks like we were about to hear this clip we've heard before, the "nobody is thinking about Michael" clip:
02:57 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 25/85
We're back, and Cohen's voice in the recording cuts in—Merchan stops and asks if Cohen is supposed to have the transcript in front of him on his screen. We pause for a beat, get Cohen the transcript, and the clip continues.
03:00 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 26/85
Hoffinger says defense asked Cohen a lot about how he profited off books and podcasts, but setting that aside how has telling the truth about Trump affected you?

COHEN: My entire life has been turned upside down as a direct result—I lost my law license, my businesses, my...
03:03 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 27/85
...financial security, which I was fortunate early to obtain.

Q: You were subject to attacks?

A: Yes.
03:04 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 28/85
Nothing further from Hoffinger, Blanche back up.

He asks about that last question, but asks how his life was turned upside down after he changed his opinion about Trump—objection, sustained. So he asks about losing his law license: was that Trump's fault?

Partly, says Cohen.
03:05 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 29/85
Blanche asks whether Cohen lost his license because of the felonies.

No not because of those, says Cohen—it was because of the totality, including campaign finance violations and lying to Congress.
03:06 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 30/85
BLANCHE: Isn't it true that you immediately lose your law license when convicted of a felony (Yes) — yet you still blame President Trump?

COHEN: Correct.
03:07 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 31/85
Back to the waiver agreement: Blanche is trying to catch Cohen between apparent inconsistencies in his belief that his communications with Costello were privileged at different times, though, like much of the cross, it's a bit confusing.
03:08 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 32/85
Back to the Schiller call following the rally—Blanche asks (incredulously) whether Cohen had time to discuss with Trump the 14 year old issue and the Daniels matter all in 90 seconds.
03:09 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 33/85
In 2016, you made $425k from the Trump Org? (base salary + bonus) Then in 2017, you were paid $420k, correct? $35k a month?

Correct, says Cohen.

But your testimony is that the $420k retainer—or payment you received—was not for legal services but for reimbursement? (Correct)
03:13 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 34/85
Blanche begins to ask about how in 2016, Trump spent about $70m of his own money—objection (out of scope), sustained.

Nothing further, Cohen is done, and the prosecution rests its case-in-chief.

Sidebar—likely about scheduling.
03:14 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 35/85
The defense calls paralegal Daniel Sitko.

Blanche: “Where do you …. work?”

Sitko: Blanche Law.

Blanche: You work for me?

"I do," Sitko says cheekily.
03:17 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 36/85
Sitko explains his role in creating an excel spreadsheet of a call summary between Cohen and Costello.

And now we see that spreadsheet, his magnum opus.
03:18 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 37/85
Nothing further from Blanche, Mangold is up now.

We've encountered each other before right? Mangold asks, smiling, we work on the same case?

Yes, says Sitko, smiling back.

--

(insert shark.gif here)
03:22 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 38/85
Mangold asks a clarifying question about the caller column—DHC means Davidoff Hutcher & Citron LLC.

A number of entries in the chart read 0:00, denoting an unanswered call.

Thrilling stuff.
03:24 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 39/85
Sitko steps down.

"The defense call Robert Costello."

A wave of "oooohhhhs" wash over the press gallery.

But before we see him, Hoffinger asks to approach—sidebar.
03:28 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 40/85
Recall that Costello was pushing the backchannel communication btwn Cohen, Giuliani, and Trump.

Costello wanted to represent Cohen, but Cohen didn't trust him.
03:31 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 41/85
With apologies, Merchan asks the jury to step out...

Again, I do wish we had discussed this earlier, Merchan begins.

Hoffinger stands to reiterate the prosecution's objection: that Constello is being brought in to offer extrinsic evidence to rebut a witness's testimony.
03:36 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 42/85
Hoffinger says Costello's testimony should be restricted just to the two questions that Cohen testified he didn't recall with regard to Costello.
Further, Cohen testified that on multiple times he didn't tell the truth to Costello, out of fear that it would get back to Trump.
03:37 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 43/85
Bove says that the defense provided notice days ago their intention to call Costello—there's no mystery here. He's seeking to elicit many facts about how Costello and Cohen's "engagement worked."
03:38 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 44/85
As Bove makes his case, Merchan pushes back: How can Costello testify as to how Cohen felt? Or to Cohen's state of mind?

Merchan clarifies he will entertain other arguments, but not that.
03:39 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 45/85
"We're gonna take 5 minutes—don't leave the courtroom," Merchan says, leaving the bench.

See you in 5, I guess.

---

(well, at least look at this for a minute, can you imagine it rn?)
03:47 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 46/85
Merchan: Mr Bove you can definitely cross-examine as to the two prior inconsistent statements, and I'll give you some latitude to offer some rebuttal as to the pressure campaign—but I'm not going to allow this to become a trial-within-a-trial.

He won't allow the retainer issue.
03:51 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 47/85
Costello, dark suit, snowy-white hair, takes the stand.

"Robert"—he stops, having startled himself—"that's awfully loud. Robert Costello," he says.

Bove begins.
03:52 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 48/85
Prior to working at Davidoff Hutcher & Citron, Costello was a federal prosecutor in New York: an Assistant US Attorney at SDNY.

Does he know Michael Cohen?

Yes, he does.
03:52 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 49/85
Q: Did you consider your conversation at Regency Hotel with Michael Cohen to be attorney-client privileged?

Objection, sustained, but Costello continues to answer, "Absolutely."

Sustained, Merchan repeats, and strikes the answer from the record.
03:53 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 50/85
At the hotel in the meeting with Cohen and Citron, Costello says Cohen was absolutely manic, pacing back and forth, and asked Costello what his options were, for an escape route.
03:54 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 51/85
Costellos says he pointed out that a search warrant of a law office is much more difficult to get than any other place—objection, sustained.

Hoffinger is quick on the draw during this objection watch. She's on high alert.
03:55 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 52/85
After two more sustained objections, Bove says he just wants to stay narrow.

I explained that this entire situation would be resolved by the end of the week if he had truthful information on Trump and cooperated with SDNY, Costello says he told Cohen.
03:55 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 53/85
Q: Did the topic of Stormy Daniels come up?

Objection—overruled.

A: Cohen began by saying I don't understand why they're trying to put me in jail for some f'ing NDA.

Costello continues, but objection, sustained.
03:56 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 54/85
Q: Did Trump's family come up?

A: Yes.

Q: What did Cohen say about Trump's family?

Objection, sustained.

Please approach—sidebar.
03:57 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 55/85
After Merchan sustained one of those last few objections, Costello just shook his head with a kind of “can you believe it” energy.

Just after Merchan called the sidebar, a man just muttered “this is ridiculous” into a mic, but I'm not positive who said it.

(lol)
03:58 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 56/85
Bove's back: we're still focused on the Regency meeting, I want to focus very narrowly on whether Cohen said anything about whether Trump knew about the payment to Daniels.

A: Cohen said numerous times that Trump knew nothing about those payments, that he did this on his own.
04:00 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 57/85
Was Rudy Giuliani mentioned?

Objection—overruled, "I'll allow it."

Yes, Costello says, but only briefly.
04:00 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 58/85
Bove shows the email from Costello to Cohen (cc Citron) on 4/18/18: "I am sure you saw the news that Rudy is joining the Trump legal team. I told you my relationship with Rudy which could be very very useful to you."
04:01 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 59/85
We see Cohen's response now: "Great news for Rudy. I know I owe you a call. I have been working iwth lawyers all day and just now am coming up for air. I will try you tomorrow."
04:02 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 60/85
Costello took that to mean Cohen was with another firm going over evidence that had been seized by the search warrant and they were presumably selecting documents that were attorney-client privileged.
04:03 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 61/85
More objections, sustained.

"Jeez," Costello says into the mic, sounding exasperated.

Laughs in the gallery.
04:05 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 62/85
After Costello said "jeez" into the mic, Merchan, fires at him, "What did you just say?"

"Strike it," Costello responds.

That's some chutzpah! Sir, you are not the judge.

It's tense in the courtroom.
04:06 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 63/85
We see the email from earlier, 4/23/18 Costello to Cohen, more questions, more objections.

Costello dramatically blows out a puff of air, sounding exhausted.

Merchan excuses the jury once again.
04:07 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 64/85
MERCHAN: Mr Costello, I'd like to discuss proper decorum in my courtroom.

As a witness on the stand, if you don't like my ruling, you don't say jeez, and you don't say strike it, bc I'm the only one who can do that.

And if you don't like my ruling, you don't give me sideeye.
04:08 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 65/85
Merchan, angrily: Are you staring me down right now?

Clear the courtroom, the judge says.
04:09 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 66/85
They're in the hall.

Tyler McBrien:

The video feed turns on, and we see Costello on the stand, frowning ahead. It's such an absurd image, him sitting there mugging at the camera, that press in the gallery start to laugh.
04:12 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 67/85
they file back in

TB: Reporters file back into their seats in the gallery, as Trump and Blanche chat quietly to each other, cupping their hands over their mouths secretly.

Let's get the jury in please, Merchan says, having regained his composure.

Costello sits there silently.
04:15 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 68/85
Bove is back at the lectern.

He shows Defense 1008: 5/16/18 email Costello to Cohen, at the bottom he writes "I will not pester you. If you want to talk you know how to reach [Citron] or myself."
04:15 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 69/85
Bove asks what he meant by those last lines, and Costello begins to answer, but he starts pretty far afield, so Hoffinger objects—sustained, stricken.

We now see a splitscreen of the email and a call log btwn Cohen and Costello.
04:16 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 70/85
The fireworks of a few moments ago have settled down. When the reporters filed back into the courtroom, the court officers told everyone that we were doing "Same Seats," like kids on a school bus.

Order has returned to Justice Merchan's realm.
04:17 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 71/85
Another email, Costello to Cohen, the line "Please remember if you want or need to communicate something, please let me know and I will see that it gets done."

What did you mean by that? Objection—overruled.
04:19 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 72/85
Costello says that he was telling Cohen that if he had a message, he'd pass it on to Giuliani.

Did you ever pressure Cohen? Try to get him to interact with Giuliani in any way?

No and no, says Costello.
04:20 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 73/85
Q: During your interactions with Cohen, did you consider him to be a client?

A: Absolutely.

Q: Whose interests did you have in mind?

A: Exclusively Michael Cohen.
04:23 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 74/85
Before Bove sits down, he asks, we've met before right?

Yes, says Costello, and confirms that he also met with state and federal prosecutors, and handed over documents to them as well
04:24 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 75/85
Nothing further from Bove. Hoffinger is up.

On 4/17/18, Citron reached out to Cohen to see if he'd be interested in meeting with Costello?

No, says Costello, the email speaks for itself.

Ok, let's take a look then, says Hoffinger, showing him People's 512P.
04:25 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 76/85
Accepted into evidence, we see the email, "extolling" Costello's achievements and famous clients, says Hoffinger. Weren't you hoping to have Cohen as a client? she asks.

I wasn't hoping anything, it's not my email, snaps Costello.
04:26 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 77/85
"I didn't know Michael Cohen from a hole in the wall," Costello says.

The jury appears to be watching closely.

--

(dear lord keep that man far away from me)
04:28 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 78/85
So you knew at the time based on the news that Cohen was Trump's personal attorney? (Yes.)

And if you could land him as a client that would be a big case for the firm? (I suppose so)

And would get you public exposure? (Yes it would)

It would be a high-profile case? (Probably.)
04:29 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 79/85
This would push you into the arena with Rudy Giuliani and Trump, having Cohen as a client? (I don't understand the question, Costello says, withdrawn.)
04:30 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 80/85
During the Merchan-Costello standoff earlier, I couldn't help but wonder if Costello was putting on his tough guy act bc he was treating his testimony like an interview for a future job on Trump's legal team.

But that's just speculation.
04:30 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 81/85
We see another email, from Costello's son, who says in response to potential news that Costello landed Cohen as a client:

"Wow. That's big news. Congrats Dad. I hope this leads to a lot of good things coming your way."
04:31 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 82/85
As Costello and Hoffinger duke it out, the press is clearly tickled by this prickly man. Some snickers and giggles ripple through the overflow room as he remains to be a generally difficult witness on the stand.
04:33 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 83/85
Back to the Regency meeting: Cohen was suicidal that day, and acting very manic, Costello says. Hoffinger begins to ask that as a crim def attorney, he can understand how traumatic a search is, but Costello points at Hoffinger and says, "Why don't you talk into the microphone."
04:34 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 84/85
Costello says that Cohen told them that two nights before, he was on the roof of the Regency Hotel and that he was going to jump off because he couldn't handle the ongoing investigation.

"Did you tell the grand jury that Cohen was acting like a drama queen?" Hoffinger asks.
04:36 PM - May 20, 2024
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thread 85/85
After some drama late in the day, Merchan stops it there. We adjourn.

Phew, what a day.

---

(oh my goodness🌿
04:41 PM - May 20, 2024
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dariasteigman
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Thank you!
In response to Helen.
08:27 PM - May 20, 2024
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Helen
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In response to dariasteigman.
yw Daria💙
08:29 PM - May 20, 2024
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