Michael J Elston
A
America first...in gun violence.
There were more than 100 mass shootings in the first 64 days of this year. Gunfire is now the leading cause of death of children & teens in this country, as Republicans continue to wear their assault rifle lapel pins.
08:57 AM - Mar 07, 2023
Avatar Avatar Avatar
0
22
146
Brent Maverick
A
In response to Michael J Elston.
Serious question: do you want to have progressive dialogue about this topic w/ gun owners? Spouts like this mingle and distort information, tragic as it may be, that will immediately shut down any chance at dialogue with an open-minded gun owner because it reads dishonest or ignorant.
09:16 AM - Mar 07, 2023
0
0
C.J. Nowak
A
In response to Brent Maverick.
What sort of misinformation is this? Are the statistics incorrect?
09:27 AM - Mar 07, 2023
1
2
Brent Maverick
A
In response to C.J. Nowak.
It uses a different definition of mass shooting than the FBI, the traditional one. Many readers don't understand the implications of this switch.

The tragic deaths of our youth by guns is mostly by suicide, & 2nd by inner city violence, not MS.

Unique challenges requiring different solutions.
11:40 AM - Mar 07, 2023
1
0
C.J. Nowak
A
The 'over 100 shootings' statistic is defined by 4 or more people being shot. The FBI defines it as 4 or more killed. I see a split hair here and I'm asking you now why you're splitting it.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't seem like a good faith argument on your part.

https://tinyurl.com/f7xwyun4
In response to Brent Maverick.
07:32 PM - Mar 07, 2023
5
0
Brent Maverick
A
In response to C.J. Nowak.
5) I would argue tact and patience are vital to change. Alienating people before you even begin is a bad way to do that, even if you disagree with their reason for being frustrated.

It's about finding middle ground and if you treat an opponents view with respect, you'll get much further.
08:43 PM - Mar 07, 2023
3
0
C.J. Nowak
A
In response to Brent Maverick.
2) I’m going to flip the tables around on you here: perhaps gun supporters need to stop expecting such coddling. Perhaps responsible gun owners need to adjust their tack. There’s nothing more alienating than this kind of “concern,” I’m afraid.
08:51 AM - Mar 08, 2023
0
0
C.J. Nowak
A
In response to Brent Maverick.
3) The problem is the guns. They need to go. Full stop.
Quibbling about the appropriate terminology to use in the conversation is an obvious and infuriating distraction.
08:51 AM - Mar 08, 2023
1
0
Brent Maverick
A
In response to C.J. Nowak.
4) I don't know any gun owners who aren't frustrated by the shootings, suicides, & loss of lives. But using words, phrases, or statistics that distort the details & inflame tension against ALL people who have guns is a perfect way to shut down openness before it can begin.
08:39 PM - Mar 07, 2023
0
0
Brent Maverick
A
In response to C.J. Nowak.
3) The VGA founder also says the media only focuses on the 5%, the MSs, & he would like to see attention given to the other 95% of gun violence. This frenzy is what politicians focus w/ legislation geared towards that which won't touch suicides or gang violence. The new def. may not be helping.
08:38 PM - Mar 07, 2023
0
0
Brent Maverick
A
In response to C.J. Nowak.
2) Even the founder of VGA, the (basically) creator of the new definition, admits his broader definition created more hype & attention, which he desires. Gun owners know this, & believe it's emotional manipulation that neither addresses the core issues, nor brings people to the table reasonably.
08:37 PM - Mar 07, 2023
0
0
Brent Maverick
A
In response to C.J. Nowak.
1) Might take me a few spouts due to character limits. Bear w/ me.

The general public doesn't understand the difference, but has been conditioned historically to understand it as murder, w/ both a mental weight & specific type of image that comes to mind when you say the phrase "mass shooting."
08:34 PM - Mar 07, 2023
1
0
C.J. Nowak
A
In response to Brent Maverick.
I appreciate your taking the time to respond, even though I very much disagree with you here.

@cbouzy This spout chaining is a bit opaque and hard to follow. I also had a few issues when trying to respond in a chain. Is this something you all might be able to take a look at for legibility?
08:54 AM - Mar 08, 2023 (Edited)
1
0

 

{{ notificationModalContent }} {{ promptModalMessage }}